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  #1  
Old 06-17-2017, 02:58 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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So if we do get nationwide carry reciprocity passed.

We have been talking about it quite a bit. The question is will California, New York, Maryland, New Jersey, etc. Will they comply with this? What happens if they do not. My thinking is that it could be a real shot storm.

What do you people think?
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Old 06-17-2017, 03:36 PM
L.E. L.E. is offline
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Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
We have been talking about it quite a bit. The question is will California, New York, Maryland, New Jersey, etc. Will they comply with this? What happens if they do not. My thinking is that it could be a real shot storm.

What do you people think?
I think my first concern will be that flying pigs might crap on my head.....
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Old 06-17-2017, 04:17 PM
AZ Desertrat AZ Desertrat is offline
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The deal is...even if we do get it...there will STILL be idiots that should NOT be carrying
or have a firearm, period! The wifey and I discussed this at length yesterday. I know I have said I am FOR IT all the way...and from a Bill of Rights and 2A standpoint.....bravo....go for it. But....we shall see when the wheat separates from the
chaff.
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Old 06-17-2017, 05:05 PM
Laudanum Laudanum is offline
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Originally Posted by AZ Desertrat View Post
The deal is...even if we do get it...there will STILL be idiots that should NOT be carrying
or have a firearm, period! The wifey and I discussed this at length yesterday. I know I have said I am FOR IT all the way...and from a Bill of Rights and 2A standpoint.....bravo....go for it. But....we shall see when the wheat separates from the
chaff.
Hmmm. I get that you are all in on 2A but the "we shall see when the wheat separates from the chaffe" sentiment ... It seems like the anti-gun zealots say something similar every time a state passes Constitutional carry or another, new carry law. The blood running in the streets scenario never comes to pass.
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Old 06-17-2017, 05:58 PM
earlwb earlwb is online now
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I can see that most states will obey the Federal Law if Congress passes it. But California is likely to ignore it. Not sure about Illinois, new Jersey or New York though, maybe they will maybe they won't.
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Old 06-17-2017, 06:05 PM
Vern Humphrey Vern Humphrey is offline
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Originally Posted by Laudanum View Post
Hmmm. I get that you are all in on 2A but the "we shall see when the wheat separates from the chaffe" sentiment ... It seems like the anti-gun zealots say something similar every time a state passes Constitutional carry or another, new carry law. The blood running in the streets scenario never comes to pass.
Or to put it another way, it's long time past to predict what will or might happen when everyone can carry. The only intellectually honest thing to do is to tell what DID happen. And in state after state, none of the dire predictions came true. The only thing that actually happened is violent crime went down.
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Old 06-17-2017, 07:28 PM
dsf dsf is offline
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I can see that most states will obey the Federal Law if Congress passes it. But California is likely to ignore it. Not sure about Illinois, new Jersey or New York though, maybe they will maybe they won't.
I would suggest that CA, NY, etc will not "ignore it" if ignore means taking away guns, detaining, arresting, fining, etc. Unless those police departments and individual officers want to encourage a flurry of 1983 actions. And despite that the big city chiefs and politicians will publicly pound their collective chests I don't see that happening. What I anticipate is strict enforcement of state laws such as those on magazine limits or "assault pistol" prohibitions. Get caught with the "mighty" Ruger Charger and +10 mag in CA and they'll be hell to pay. In short, if a visitor runs afoul of state laws that still apply there will be no forgiveness.

And I would expect additional laws to be passed regulating carry, such as "no guns within 1000 ft of a liquor store" of school, all handguns in vehicles must be unloaded and locked, etc. That in effect CA, NY, MA, etc will find out just where that "goes too far" legislative line is and they'll creep right up to it.
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Old 06-17-2017, 08:14 PM
CVMASheepdog CVMASheepdog is online now
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And I would expect additional laws to be passed regulating carry, such as "no guns within 1000 ft of a liquor store" of school, all handguns in vehicles must be unloaded and locked, etc. That in effect CA, NY, MA, etc will find out just where that "goes too far" legislative line is and they'll creep right up to it.
Ding Ding Ding. I highly suspect this will become the laws of the land in those....anti-2A states. This will get pass I suspect only by allowing states to continue to regulate WHERE you can conceal carry. And by doing so will tangently allow those states to so overly restrict space you still won't be able to carry in. Alifornia unless you go 45 miles into the tree line. And @dsf I think your 1000 ft is being generously conservative. I am thinking more like no carry with 1 mile of a school, day care, prison, park, beach, ect. Making any city completely off limits for conceal carry without a special California state CCW stamp or some such....
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2017, 08:29 PM
aquabum aquabum is online now
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National reciprocity will only make the anti states crack down on their state laws even harder. In effect, we will basically keep the status quo. Because nobody in their right mind from a place like Florida with great CC laws dare to carry in the restrictive CA or NY etc. Heck I don't even think I own any CA approved guns to be able to carry there if I wanted to.

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Old 06-18-2017, 01:40 AM
L84CABO L84CABO is offline
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If it does pass, I guarantee you that Komifornia will contest it all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary.

A possible exception is if Peruta v Sheriff Gore/San Diego gets decided favorably first. This would establish CA as a Shall Issue state. At that point they may not care as the state will be flooded with resident CCW holders anyway so a few more at that point may not matter to the liberal overlords.
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  #11  
Old 06-18-2017, 01:55 AM
RichT RichT is online now
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I have several CA registered guns, although I now live in AZ. If national reciprocity is passed, I will be carrying my CA legal guns, and if some Ahole LEO in CA decides to contest it, my first call will be to Michele law firm, which is the NRA backed firm in CA. I will go to the supreme court if necessary, to establish a new precedent. I thought the laws there were asinine when I lived there, and if they want to flout Federal law, so be it, I'm up to the challenge. It's time they learned that they cannot flout the Constitution just because they think they can.
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Old 06-18-2017, 04:00 AM
combat auto combat auto is offline
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Originally Posted by USMM guy View Post
We have been talking about it quite a bit. The question is will California, New York, Maryland, New Jersey, etc. Will they comply with this? What happens if they do not. My thinking is that it could be a real shot storm.

What do you people think?
As much as I would want them too, very-likely they will not, do they follow federal immigration law, for example? I would suppose if it came to it, an example would be made by the lefty-states on a gun owner, which would be needed to be challenged in the courts (outcome dependent on "which" court)...Me, I would like to see the Trump Administration send in Federalized Troops to enforce the rule of law when needed in these lefty places, somewhat analogs to what JFK and his brother did to enforce federal laws protecting Civil-Rights in the south in the 60's. Arresting a few lefty Mayors and Governess would make 2017-18 fine years in a political context....We are at that point again in our society, but the question remains is what "will" is left on the right.
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:00 AM
AirForceShooter AirForceShooter is offline
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NY, NJ, And a few other anti places don't recognize FOPA. Think they'll accept nat'l carry?

AFS
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:54 AM
44fred 44fred is offline
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There are plenty of you from other states that aren't aware there are counties here in Cal. that are pro CCW, I'm fortunate to live in one of them.
This article is from June 2015, There has been several thousand permits issued since.
Keep in mind LA County is almost impossible to attain a permit. Yet Judges.......
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  #15  
Old 06-18-2017, 06:50 PM
dsf dsf is offline
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Originally Posted by CVMASheepdog View Post
Ding Ding Ding. I highly suspect this will become the laws of the land in those....anti-2A states. This will get pass I suspect only by allowing states to continue to regulate WHERE you can conceal carry. And by doing so will tangently allow those states to so overly restrict space you still won't be able to carry in. Alifornia unless you go 45 miles into the tree line. And @dsf I think your 1000 ft is being generously conservative. I am thinking more like no carry with 1 mile of a school, day care, prison, park, beach, ect. Making any city completely off limits for conceal carry without a special California state CCW stamp or some such....
Let's not forget the ever popular "no carrying within 1 mile of a marijuana dispensary" too. Which are of course popping up left and right.
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:02 PM
dsf dsf is offline
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NY, NJ, And a few other anti places don't recognize FOPA. Think they'll accept nat'l carry?

AFS
There are flaws in FOPA and NY, NJ exploit them. Also, the few cases in which FOPA was invoked included mistakes by the gunowner - such as access to the guns, spending time overnight or unlocked cases. Perhaps the lessons of FOPA are that the law must be explicit and easy to follow.

My main concern with national reciprocity is that it allows federal regulation of carry of firearms within state lines and uses "interstate commerce" as the hook. Given the all encompassing reach of interstate commerce, the federal government having dipped its toe in the water regulating carry by citizens crossing state lines, will use those same "firearms having crossed state lines in commerce" to regulate all carry to include residents with their home state. A gunowner who never leaves his state, buys a handgun at his LGS is still, so far as the federal government and courts are concerned, engaged in interstate commerce.

Once we travel down this path we're in effect gambling that a future Congress and a future court won't take advantage or rule against us.
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:20 PM
HT77 HT77 is online now
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I think its not that hard to predict how this will unfold. States like California and others will immediately file suit in the 9th Circuit and a libtard judge out there, who normally rules against state's rights will suddenly become a champion of state's rights and overturn the legislation. It will eventually be a Supreme Court crapshoot.
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:36 PM
USMM guy USMM guy is online now
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This is pretty much the way that I see it.

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Originally Posted by HT77 View Post
I think its not that hard to predict how this will unfold. States like California and others will immediately file suit in the 9th Circuit and a libtard judge out there, who normally rules against state's rights will suddenly become a champion of state's rights and overturn the legislation. It will eventually be a Supreme Court crapshoot.
I really would like to see the current administration appoint at least one more supreme court justice. We will be living with Kagan and Sotomayor for a long time. We need a little more weight on our side of the bench, no doubt.
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:50 PM
Nork1911A1 Nork1911A1 is offline
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I think its not that hard to predict how this will unfold. States like California and others will immediately file suit in the 9th Circuit and a libtard judge out there, who normally rules against state's rights will suddenly become a champion of state's rights and overturn the legislation. It will eventually be a Supreme Court crapshoot.
Yep.
Violates the 10th amendment.
Nevermind that CA, NY, NJ & other "socialist" states violate 2A at every turn.

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Old 06-18-2017, 07:52 PM
Tsquare4811 Tsquare4811 is offline
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For national reciprocity to work all limitations on magazine size will have to be rendered null and void. Also any states that prohibit certain types of firearms will suffer the same fate. The same goes for ammunition - BTW: Right now do not get caught with HP's in NJ.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:38 PM
L.E. L.E. is offline
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Originally Posted by HT77 View Post
I think its not that hard to predict how this will unfold. States like California and others will immediately file suit in the 9th Circuit and a libtard judge out there, who normally rules against state's rights will suddenly become a champion of state's rights and overturn the legislation. It will eventually be a Supreme Court crapshoot.
Look on the bright side. The Ninth Circuit Court is the most over-turned court in the land.
Generally, I'm in favor of states' rights. Not, however, when they're contrary to the Constitution.
L.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:09 PM
clt_capt clt_capt is offline
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I would guess that Ca, NY, NJ, Il and a few others will "honor" Reciprocity, but they will limit the firearms, magazines, ammo... ie: my standard carry ammo is hollowpoint - Illegal in NJ for example... I would get arrested and charged for the ammo, not the firearm...
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:14 PM
Camaro45th Camaro45th is offline
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Plus NYC is its own entity. I live in NY and in LI its a little easier to get a permit than in the city. Granted, I work in the city everyday and that's where I would want to carry for protection. I'm not the type of person to go looking for trouble, but want to make sure that if it finds me I want to make home...on this side of the dirt.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:49 AM
Walt Longmire Walt Longmire is offline
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Originally Posted by Tsquare4811 View Post
For national reciprocity to work all limitations on magazine size will have to be rendered null and void. Also any states that prohibit certain types of firearms will suffer the same fate. The same goes for ammunition - BTW: Right now do not get caught with HP's in NJ.
No it would not. Two totally separate issues.

National reciprocity would simply mean that if you have a concealed carry permit in one state it is valid in all states that have concealed carry laws. To override this - any state that did not want to comply would simply bar / eliminate concealed carry rights. That would mean IF they did not want to comply states like California would have to COMPLETELY remove the law allowing concealed carry permits being issued to ANYONE. Politicians, celebrities, ANYONE. Same for NY. Which means yes, Donald Trump, (rumored) Donald Jr., (rumored) Eric and (rumored) Ivanka would all have to give up their permits as well.

That would be the ONLY way to overcome, if not make it clear it was a direct evasion of the law, if passed. IF the Federal Government wanted to make a stink about it further, that states were revoking existing rights to evade the law - it would become a states rights v federal rights case. Just that simple. The problem is - the reciprocity law does, by its own wording, indicate states have the right to have a law or not have a law on the topic, therefore indirectly implying a state has the right to REMOVE the law / right as well (which they do).

It has nothing to do with capacity limitations or ammunition restrictions.

Capacity limitations, ammunition restrictions, etc. all fall - currently - within a states' rights power to govern. That, if memory serves, has been supported by the Supreme Court on at least one occasion. So long as you can carry, that is all this theoretical national reciprocity legislation would / could cover to stay within the bounds of the purview of federal regulation, and even that may be shaky, as previously mentioned, as states have taken the individual steps to pass or reject concealed carry laws, establish different rules and guidelines, etc.

NOW... to counter my own counter let's presume this bill passes (even though it's been stuck in the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, Homeland Security, and Investigations since Jan 12...

If you take a close look at the wording of the bill itself - it does not specifically indicate that a person from say Texas, Colorado, Utah, etc. is required to comply with say the ammunition restrictions of a state like say New Jersey. Therefore - if someone from Texas with a concealed carry were involved in stopping a crime using his beloved 1911 loaded with CorBon HPs, he or she could not be punished criminally for any aspect of his or her concealed carry weapon or ammunition. I'm sure a blowhard ambitious NJ prosecutor MIGHT try some ridiculous angle like that. Let them off for everything BUT possession of a "restricted" ammunition. But logic would dictate that would be an easily winnable case using the reciprocity law wording (as it currently stands)
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:19 AM
CZModel3 CZModel3 is offline
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I think its not that hard to predict how this will unfold. States like California and others will immediately file suit in the 9th Circuit and a libtard judge out there, who normally rules against state's rights will suddenly become a champion of state's rights and overturn the legislation. It will eventually be a Supreme Court crapshoot.
This is the path it will take.

The legislation will be contested in the 9th and the 2nd for sure, probably be contested in the 7th as well. All three will rule it unconstitutional. If the SC stays on it's current path of refusing to hear any 2nd Amendment cases, then the reciprocity legislation be be null and void.
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