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  #1  
Old 02-24-2016, 09:46 AM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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What CCW Insurance Do You Have?

i need to buy some CCW insurance (services, etc). so many are mentioned, which one do you have, which ones have the best value? i see many do have CCW Safe for legal services (their site says its not an insurance policy), any pros-cons to worry about, do you need a legal plan and a insurance plan?

Last edited by 1911_Kid; 02-24-2016 at 09:50 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2016, 10:05 AM
motorsporting motorsporting is offline
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I have USCCA. I signed up for them a LONG time ago and just have never changed. If I knew about it at the time, I may have opted for the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. Not necessarily because one is better than the other, but I like Marty Hayes and FAS and try to support them. I think they are necessary. I hope I'm NEVER in a shootout, but if so I know I wouldn't be able to afford legal support without some coverage.
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  #3  
Old 02-24-2016, 10:11 AM
Kosh75287 Kosh75287 is offline
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That's an excellent question to ask. It's a prudent thing to have, no matter how justified one might be in shooting. There's always some bottom-feeder with a law degree who'd just love to take your assets for defending yourself. If you've used a local attorney for almost anything, they might be able to advise you on the insurance, or at least know another attorney who may advise you better.

It might be rare, but some life, medical, auto, or home underwriters have some sort of "umbrella liability" policy. They may also provide the coverage you seek, and perhaps for less, if they're already insuring other things for you.
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  #4  
Old 02-24-2016, 11:12 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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CCW insurance....

My only "insurance" is living in a state that allows the use of lethal force for self and others, and clearly spells that out in statutory law.

I have been carrying concealed in Florida since the first year it was a "shall issue" state, which was 1987. I have been in some tense situations, but I have yet to draw my weapon. As far as I am concerned, my weapon is my last resort when the "stuff" hits the fan....it would have to be a situation where I am in "imminent fear for my life or the lives of others...."

If a person can control their emotions in tense situations, then they shouldn't have the need for CCW insurance.....but perhaps some feel it is good to have.....

Last edited by Rwehavinfunyet; 02-25-2016 at 04:39 AM.
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  #5  
Old 02-24-2016, 11:19 AM
aquabum aquabum is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwehavinfunyet View Post
My only "insurance" is living in a state that allows the use of lethal force for self and others, and clearly spells that out in statutory law.

I have been carrying concealed in Florida since the first year it was a "shall issue" state, which was 1987. I have been in some tense situations, but I have yet to draw my weapon. As far as I am concerned, my weapon is my last resort when the "stuff" hits the fan....it would have to be a situation where I am in "imminent fear for my life or the lives of others...."

If a person can not control their emotions in tense situations, then they shouldn't have the need for CCW insurance.....but perhaps some feel it is good to have.....
+1

Living in FL allows me a lot of legal protection in the act of a self defense shooting etc... If you feel like you need this insurance, I suggest you simply read up on your state laws a little more and follow them. It's just another way for people to make a buck off you!
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  #6  
Old 02-24-2016, 11:21 AM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquabum View Post
+1

Living in FL allows me a lot of legal protection in the act of a self defense shooting etc... If you feel like you need this insurance, I suggest you simply read up on your state laws a little more and follow them. It's just another way for people to make a buck off you!
laws or no laws on my side, gonna be lawyer fees. if the incident is in the gray area its almost definite some fees will be there. and there's two fronts lawyer fees come in, 1st the criminal side, followed by the civil side. state laws typically give you redemption from penal code, but the civil code is usually wide open and is typically what dominates court time.

Last edited by 1911_Kid; 02-24-2016 at 11:31 AM.
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  #7  
Old 02-24-2016, 11:52 AM
BillD BillD is offline
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I live in a state where if there is no guilt found in a criminal trial, there can be no civil suit.
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  #8  
Old 02-24-2016, 12:14 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Originally Posted by BillD View Post
I live in a state where if there is no guilt found in a criminal trial, there can be no civil suit.
good point, those are items that are good to know (should know), but, at that point you already have lawyer fees from the criminal side, even if you are innocent the whole way. but law service policies should handle all that and leave us to worry less about it?
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  #9  
Old 02-24-2016, 12:27 PM
Ranger 230 Ranger 230 is offline
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I use and recommend Armed Citizens Legal Defense that Marty Hayes heads up. Anyone thinking they won't need an attorney if involved in a use of force case is very naive.
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  #10  
Old 02-24-2016, 12:29 PM
Kosh75287 Kosh75287 is offline
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A plaintiff's attorney makes a living out of turning nothing into something. You can do everything you're supposed to do, exactly the way you're supposed to do it, and some "enterprising" opportunistic bottom-feeder with "J.D." or Esq. at the end of their name will sue you anyway.

You shot him with too powerful a weapon. You shot him with too weak a weapon. You shot him too many times. You used cruel ammunition. You were too far away, you were too close. You didn't say, "Simon SAYS stop what you're doing".

IF you do not live in a state where being no-billed for, or acquitted in a trial IS NOT a shield against civil litigation, SERIOUSLY consider getting insured. Not all states have this enlightened attitude toward civil litigation.

Quote:
If a person can not control their emotions in tense situations, then they shouldn't have the need for CCW insurance.....but perhaps some feel it is good to have.....
Is it possible you meant, "If a person can control their emotions in tense situations, then they shouldn't have the need for CCW insurance.....but perhaps some feel it is good to have....."? Because it makes no sense, to me, as written.

Even so, if one is a perfect driver and always aware of the actions of other drivers, they shouldn't have the need for collision insurance, yet I'd bet you're insured, and not just because it's legally required. I don't think there's an automobile made today that is not equipped with airbags, yet they still are also equipped with seat belts The more prudent among us rely on both.

You don't HAVE to do anything wrong to get sued. All you need do is be PERCEIVED as having done something wrong. Conducting oneself in a legal manner at all stages of such an incident is a necessary element in one's exoneration, but if it is sufficient, your are fortunate. If it is insufficient (and it often is), expect to get a very expensive lesson in civil litigation.

Last edited by Kosh75287; 02-24-2016 at 12:57 PM. Reason: typos & clarity
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  #11  
Old 02-24-2016, 01:01 PM
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AdamG247 AdamG247 is offline
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This topic just makes my skin crawl and my head ache.....

My insurance is the sidearm I carry. I'm a simple man. Retired on a meager military pension. I have little to lose in this game. So bring it....

Secondly, Florida allows for legal fee reimbursement and penalties if case is dismissed or acquitted.

I guess if I had millions in the bank I might see this differently. Just another way of taking your money for nothing IMHO.

What really scares me? We keep talking about this and sooner or later it will become MANDATORY to get a CCW Permit........Ok I will shut up and go away now.....
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  #12  
Old 02-24-2016, 01:19 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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Originally Posted by BillD View Post
I live in a state where if there is no guilt found in a criminal trial, there can be no civil suit.
let me ask this another way. what happens if the incident was justified and no criminal case ever happens, are you still protected from a civil case ?

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Originally Posted by AdamG247 View Post
This topic just makes my skin crawl and my head ache.....

My insurance is the sidearm I carry. I'm a simple man. Retired on a meager military pension. I have little to lose in this game. So bring it....

Secondly, Florida allows for legal fee reimbursement and penalties if case is dismissed or acquitted.

I guess if I had millions in the bank I might see this differently. Just another way of taking your money for nothing IMHO.

What really scares me? We keep talking about this and sooner or later it will become MANDATORY to get a CCW Permit........Ok I will shut up and go away now.....
where do you get the $$ up front to handle the case, even if you know it might (might) come back to you. they sue you, its costs you $1mil in fees, they lose, now you want your $1mil back, they cant pay it.

Last edited by 1911_Kid; 02-24-2016 at 01:28 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-24-2016, 05:27 PM
Excalibur Excalibur is offline
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Originally Posted by AdamG247 View Post
This topic just makes my skin crawl and my head ache.....

My insurance is the sidearm I carry. I'm a simple man. Retired on a meager military pension. I have little to lose in this game. So bring it....

Secondly, Florida allows for legal fee reimbursement and penalties if case is dismissed or acquitted.

I guess if I had millions in the bank I might see this differently. Just another way of taking your money for nothing IMHO.

What really scares me? We keep talking about this and sooner or later it will become MANDATORY to get a CCW Permit........Ok I will shut up and go away now.....
Wholeheartedly AGREE!!!!
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  #14  
Old 02-24-2016, 05:44 PM
Logos Logos is offline
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I'm gonna self-insure.

Chances are so ridiculously slim that I will ever have to shoot........
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  #15  
Old 02-24-2016, 07:22 PM
motorsporting motorsporting is offline
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Originally Posted by Logos View Post
I'm gonna self-insure.
I applaud this. If I had the means to set aside 5+ figures for insurance needs, I would too. However, I don't. Maybe I'm a sucker for insurance, but $25/month for a LOT of coverage works for me. It would take me 10 years of saving that amount for me to be comfortable, and even then I'd have less than what I'd want. In those 10 years, a lot of bad ... can happen, especially the way our society is going ...
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:40 PM
L84CABO L84CABO is offline
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Some of the opinions here really surprise me. You can be in the right 10 ways to Sunday and still be sued. And yea, the odds of you ever needing to shoot someone are pretty small...and yet you still carry. But in the event you do shoot someone, what do you think the odds of being sued are? I'm betting 50/50.

Keep in mind OP, there may be two types of insurance you need. One to cover the legal expense...something like CCW Safe or similar. And one to cover the liability if found guilty.
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  #17  
Old 02-24-2016, 07:45 PM
davsco davsco is offline
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all i'm saying is read the fine print on any insurance you're paying for. hate to pay $25/mo for ten years (ie $3 grand) and find out it isn't quite what you were hoping for. i'm not aware of any issues, just some free advice.
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  #18  
Old 02-25-2016, 05:01 AM
Rwehavinfunyet Rwehavinfunyet is offline
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The need for CCW insurance....

The state of Florida has clear and distinct laws for concealed carry and the justifiable use of lethal force. Perhaps some states do not have clear laws...?

There are many cases in Florida where armed citizens needed to use their weapons for self defense, never spent a night in jail, and did not suffer a civil trial. Florida is also one of those states that if a person is legally justified in a self defense shooting, they may not be tried in a civil suit for "wrongful death."

I remember a case about ten years ago, where a young man in his early twenties was filling up his truck at a convenience store one evening. He heard screams coming from inside, and saw a man attacking and brutally beating a female cashier. He took a handgun from his truck, and went to help.....the attacker was much larger than the young man, and when the young man told the guy to stop the attack, the bad guy went for the young man. The young mad shot and killed the attacker.

Naturally, LE arrived to investigate, and it turned out the Bad Guy was a former boyfriend that had been stalking the female cashier since they broke up. Although the female cashier was badly beat up, she corroborated the young man's involvement to stop the attack, and felt he had saved her life. The young man had no criminal record, nor did he even know the cashier.....he simply reacted to seeing a woman being pummeled and beaten by a much larger man. The young man had to make a statement, but was never arrested.....the District Attorney ruled it the justifiable use of lethal force. The news media got hold of the story and claimed the young man was a hero.....the woman would have most likely been killed by her attacker......
When an armed citizen gets involved to "do the right thing," it doesn't mean they will be automatically arrested, nor have to spend money on a civil trial.....it all depends on the laws of your state.

If a person uses a gun when it is not a clearly justified shoot, like the Zimmerman/Travon Martin trial , then having CCW insurance would be a good idea....!
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Old 02-25-2016, 07:11 AM
aquabum aquabum is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911_Kid View Post
let me ask this another way. what happens if the incident was justified and no criminal case ever happens, are you still protected from a civil case ?


where do you get the $$ up front to handle the case, even if you know it might (might) come back to you. they sue you, its costs you $1mil in fees, they lose, now you want your $1mil back, they cant pay it.
In Florida, if it's a justified shot, there is no criminal or civil suit allowed!!!!! End of story. And if a person brings a suit against you, it's thrown out the second it hits a judges desk. No lawyer needed! No money needed! No nothing!!! It's in the laws and has been tested many times for case law to be there as well. So yes, in my state, we are not worried about some dumb concealed carry insurance!
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Old 02-25-2016, 07:11 AM
Frank1960 Frank1960 is offline
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I haven't seen a answer to the OPs question just your opinions of IF he should have it. Have any of you the answer to which would be "better" to use
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  #21  
Old 02-25-2016, 07:41 AM
TW45 TW45 is offline
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Originally Posted by AdamG247 View Post
This topic just makes my skin crawl and my head ache.....

My insurance is the sidearm I carry. I'm a simple man. Retired on a meager military pension. I have little to lose in this game. So bring it....

Secondly, Florida allows for legal fee reimbursement and penalties if case is dismissed or acquitted.

I guess if I had millions in the bank I might see this differently. Just another way of taking your money for nothing IMHO.

What really scares me? We keep talking about this and sooner or later it will become MANDATORY to get a CCW Permit........Ok I will shut up and go away now.....
yep sadly agree and have been saying this as well since I joined this forum, it's amazing how the new Gun owners generation give in to crap in believing in safety, they will hand over their safety and common sense to the federal government easily it seems.
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  #22  
Old 02-25-2016, 07:59 AM
Sistema1927 Sistema1927 is offline
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How is buying private CCW insurance a sign that folks are handing over their safety and common sense to the federal government?

I use Self Defense Fund. In addition to the legal coverage it offers some other neat goodies, and is very reasonable.

https://selfdefensefund.com/
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  #23  
Old 02-25-2016, 08:23 AM
Kosh75287 Kosh75287 is offline
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+1 what Motorsporting said. You've already decided that the odds of needing to defend your life with a weapon are more than negligible, or you wouldn't be carrying a sidearm. If the chance that you may have to defend yourself with a gun is significant, what do you suppose the odds are that you'll be prosecuted or sued for doing it?

Ask yourself "What are the consequences of being wrong?", when getting the insurance. If you pay $25/month for a great many years and never have to use the insurance, you're out some money, but not a lot (I can't buy 1000 primers or a pound of pistol powder for $25, anymore). If you DO NOT get the insurance and DO get sued or arrested/indicted, you'll burn through 10 years of monthly insurance premiums (or 75% the price of a USPSA "Open" Class Race-gun) before you're halfway through the preliminary stages of litigation.

Quote:
I haven't seen a answer to the OPs question just your opinions of IF he should have it. Have any of you the answer to which would be "better" to use
My suggestion that he inquire of underwriters who already manage other policies for him was not a hypothetical one. It may not take him anywhere, since the insurance he seeks is somewhat specialized, but it IS a departure. There's always a chance that the underwriters the OP uses for other things knows another underwriter to whom he can refer him.

Additionally, bandying about the point of WHETHER the OP should be insured also gives us an intuitive grasp of how much the insurance might be WORTH, to him. It leads us to quantify, in a very rough and ready way, how much it might be prudent to spend on it. Paying $25/month might seem reasonable, while paying $250/month might NOT.
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  #24  
Old 02-25-2016, 08:30 AM
rodspade rodspade is offline
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I'm a member of ACLDN. They cover all lawful incidents of self defense, and they have experts who can help your attorney prepare your case. (Most defense lawyers have little experience with clients who are actually innocent.) They also provide education for their members, because knowledgeable people are less likely to get in trouble in the first place.
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Old 02-25-2016, 12:37 PM
1911_Kid 1911_Kid is offline
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ACLDN though is a services plan, does not cover monetary judgements.

lets take a look at next step after a no criminal case, not-guilty criminal case, or guilty criminal case, follows is a civil case. ACLDN doesnt cover the judgement if i am found liable, so to supplement ACLDN what insurance plan would you recommend?

for those in ACLDN, and in AZ, what lawyer are you using? Tim Forshey ? other ?

Last edited by 1911_Kid; 02-25-2016 at 12:45 PM.
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