10m/.40

[nicke]

Hi guys let me start off by saying yes I have used the search function. My problem is I have some Frontier 10m/.40 165 grain bullets..I'm reloading .40. So I took a Winchester 165 grain .40 apart and the Frontier bullet is just a hair bigger or I should say fatter in diameter. I'm pretty new so I apologize but should I be concerned and just scrap 'em? Thanks

[iGun]

I doubt there is a problem here. What matters are the final cartridge dimensions. When I was getting back into reloading, someone here recommended this case gage:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=276502

You can also take a barrel out of your gun and test to see if the round will chamber. Of course neither of these will guard against too short a COL dimension.

[nicke]

they both chamber..but I thought the winchester would fall through the barell. Talk about a tight fit! Thats why the frontier bullet concerned me..thanks

[Bret]

I've been reloading 40S&W for about 15 years. Are the Frontier bullets jacketed, plated, or lead? What is the exact diameter of the Winchester and Frontier bullets?

[nicke]

I wanna say they are plated lead like Berrys or rainier. The Win. are .40 and the Frontiers are .41/.42

[Bret]

nicke, you should be measuring to three decimal places. There's no way the Frontiers are 0.410" to 0.420" and are really 40S&W bullets.

[TheGerk]

Measure the bullets closely and check for any really odd measurements.
I would not load anything close to 0.403" or larger

As you can see from the SAAMI specifications there is some room to move in the .40

Both the .40 and the 10 maintain the same bore, groove and bullet diameter specifications. It’s the chambers that are different.

Typically what we see in jacketed is 0.400” to 0.4015” in most production jacketed
Lead and plated usually around 0.401” to 0.402”

You should be fine with your plated at 0.402, just use some reason loading up the first 10 and test
I included the scan of the 10MM only because I could not get a decent scan of the 40 cal. page data.
The pertinent bullet, bore and groove specifications are the same and highlighted in red
Good Luck

[nicke]

Thanks so much everyone, I'm really hesitant to load .40 caliber being a high pressure round and the kabooms with glocks. I have a manual Lyman to be exact and I have checked hodgons website but all the recipes are for hollow points and whatnot. So using titegroup and a plated 165..135..180 grainers roundnose I figure I'll chrony some Winchester White Box stock ammo. Get the speed average and work my way there with my reloads. Does that sound safe? Sorry I suck at this and I'm a really bad shot but man I love it!

[MSgt Dotson]

Many folks use Titegroup in the .40, works fine....

As a point of reference, 4.0 gr with 180 gr Precision RNFP bullets develops 918 fps, and 4.2 gr of TG gives 940 fps from my Glock 35's 5.3" bbl....(I use a somewhat shorter OAL, 1.12", which still allows easy chambering/drop flush checks with a LoneWolf .40 barrel...)

Unless you have a 'must have' velocity goal, not much reason for straying into the upper loading 3rd of reloading charts....

I will assume and hope your earlier post with .41/.42" reference was a typo, and that you meant .401"/.402".....

Check your finished reloads by assuring they will drop at least flush with the barrel hood, and, hand check each one by attempting to press the finished cartridge, bullet down, onto a hardsurface, seeing if they are subject to bullet setback....; if you can press the bullet deeper into the case, then your brass is not being resized properly.... DO NOT USE ROUNDs with insufficient case/bullet tension....(much better to have your bullets at .401" than at .399'!!!!!)

[MSgt Dotson]

Regarding the use of 'too many times reloaded' .40 brass....

Somewhere before 12-15 reloadings, you will begin to suffer case failures, case head separations.....(the brass weakens after many expand/resize cycles)

I'd recommend for safety's sake you toss the brass after 5-7 full power loadings....

[nicke]

Yep a typo indeed. I read the next line as 1 when I should've typed 01..what do you guys think of matching win. white box speed? Is it a good idea? I plan on reloading for my emp .40

[iGun]

I have found reloading for the EMP .40 to be a bit of a challenge. My EMP needs full-power loads to cycle properly. But, with its non-fully-supported chamber, I am reluctant go anywhere near the SAAMI limits with reloaded brass. (I don't want to repeat my kB experience where the case ruptured.)

If you insist on reloading for your EMP .40, I recommend starting low, and working upward in 0.2 gr increments. Choose the lightest load that cycles reliably, and make sure to weigh your charges precisely and often.

Good luck and be careful.

[MSgt Dotson]

Originally Posted by nicke

Yep a typo indeed. I read the next line as 1 when I should've typed 01..what do you guys think of matching win. white box speed? Is it a good idea? I plan on reloading for my emp .40

You might be able to match WWB speed, but, that in itself is an arbitrary goal; safe ammo that feeds (without setback)/fully ejects well within pressure limits that is adequate for your practice purposes/needs is goal one...

If you are using 180 gr plated bullets, I'd start with 4.0 gr to 4.2 gr of Titegroup. If your pistol functions fine,there is little need for adding powder to attempt to match Winchester's factory ammo... (I will presume you are not shooting USPSA with an EMP, and therefor don't really 'need' 930 fps; in such a small pistol, your hand will probably thank you for using 900 fps ammo over 970 fps ammo anyway..)

[RealGun]

Originally Posted by iGun

I have found reloading for the EMP .40 to be a bit of a challenge. My EMP needs full-power loads to cycle properly. But, with its non-fully-supported chamber.

Where did you get the idea that the chamber was not fully supported? I have heard of "glocked", reminiscent of older generation Glock guns, but never "EMPed" brass. Maybe you're right, but I never ran into that idea before in many discussions about .40 S&W brass and reloading.

[Bret]

Originally Posted by RealGun

Where did you get the idea that the chamber was not fully supported?

All you have to do is look at it to tell. iGun, how about a picture?

[iGun]

Here are the pictures...
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthre...=257261&page=3

BTW, 180 gr TMJ rounds with 4.2 gr of Titegroup don't cycle well in my EMP.

[Bret]

Wow, those are some interesting pictures. Honestly, I don't think Springfield has any business making a pistol with a chamber that is that unsupported. They could have used a regular 1911 grip frame and ended up with a fully supported chamber (like my Para P1640). Sure, the grip would be longer, but that's the price you pay for having a safe firearm. I think Springfield should have just kept the EMP a 9mm. Obviously you know how to handle it now. You just have to be very careful.

[iGun]

Let's not hijack this thread on a discussion of the EMP... but other than that kB (which was user error) I have had zero problems with my EMP .40. The balance and feel of the gun really works for me, and reliability-wise it is excellent. I think both of these are in part the result of the shortened frame that requires an unsupported chamber design.

But I do feel that this is not an ideal "reloader's gun".

[RealGun]

Originally Posted by iGun

Let's not hijack this thread on a discussion of the EMP... but other than that kB (which was user error) I have had zero problems with my EMP .40. The balance and feel of the gun really works for me, and reliability-wise it is excellent. I think both of these are in part the result of the shortened frame that requires an unsupported chamber design.

But I do feel that this is not an ideal "reloader's gun".

Springfield's own EMP 40 specs use the term "fully supported ramp".

It is not a hijack, if we stop to challenge somebody's factoid.

[iGun]

Originally Posted by RealGun

Springfield's own EMP 40 specs use the term "fully supported ramp"...

Guess they would say it depends on how you define "supported"?

But, for obvious reasons, I would disagree that it is fully supported.

[nicke]

What's up gunners? I loaded some of those frontiers 165 Grain at four grains of tite group. Real low recoil..speed range between 776 to 827 fps I seated them a little long. All cycled great..WWB ranged 934 to 987 fps of the same weight. Federal red box 180 Grain were 908 to 957 fps. I will prob. seat the frontiers a little shorter and add .2 grains of TG I also got some Federal 135 jhp in a silver box which fed funny but I like them. I can't decide what weight to stick with. I have a feeling 155 grain is the one. Having alot of fun and can't believe how smart and helpful everyone is.

[iGun]

Hey Nicke,

Glad to hear things went well with your reloads. So the 165 gr bullets with 4 gr Titegroup fed and cycled well in your EMP .40?

[nicke]

iGun..yes the frontier 165 grain with four grains of tite group cycled fine just really weak fps and no recoil. By the way when I ordered my guide rod I asked if I could get an aluminum plug cause I thought plastic was chinsy..they said only plastic is what they come with but I got an aluminum plug with my guiderod! Way to go Springfield. So I figure I need to rebrake in my emp.

[iGun]

Excellent. I'll have to try that load. No recoil? Sounds too good to be true

Both of my guide rod assemblies are all metal. I thought a break-in would be needed for the backup recoil assembly, but my EMP functioned reliably right away with the new assembly.

[nicke]

iGun..I seated them long cause I'm not sure what oal is. You know I'm not good at reading micrometers but I'll give it a shot..1.138 again it cycled but very weak..better safe then sorry!