The SFS system and me being an Idiot!!

[Odinkar 105]

Let me say at first that this is not a complaint about anyone or their products. I just wanted to share my experience with some fine people and to help someone from making the same bonehead mistake I did.
I had won an S&W 1911 and have been trying to get my department to let me carry it. The problem was that the chief was former army in the 70’s and was scared of cocked and locked. I tried to use facts, but it only confused him. I decided to get the SFS system to see if he would be OK with that. I can hear the howls of outrage about missing with JMB’s master piece, but it looked like the only way to do it. I had never detail striped my 1911 and wasn’t real sure how it went. I know some of you can see where this is going as well. I should have known what I was doing, but I’m a guy so who needs to know details right? Just a bit about the SFS system, first. I ordered it from Brownells and it came with its usually fast speed. The instructions are a bit hard to understand if, as I have said before, you are a moron like me. The hammer came already put together, which looks like a good thing. Unlike most things the SFS system comes with more parts then I needed. In my case the plunger lever and trigger bar lever. Here is the start of the problem. They would not fit with the new parts and the pistol. I wasted about 5 hours before I figured out that those parts are for a different model. After I finally put it back together, the hammer would not work right. For those of you who have never seen the SFS, you chamber a round and push the hammer forward. It then locks and the safety pops up and locks the slide. In my case the hammer would not stay in the forward position. After taking it a part and putting it back together many times I was at my wits end and if you know me that’s not a far trip. I called Cylinder and Slide many time for help. They were great people and offered me the best help they could with me trying to describe it over the phone. After about five or six phone calls, I sent it and the parts to them to have the experts put it in for me. I mailed in UPS and that ran my $46.22. The UPS lady was first rate helping me on the best way to send it. When I called C&S they had it working and could not get it to have the problem I told them about. They then sent it back to me. The only thing they charged me for was shipping and they even adjusted the trigger for me. When I got my pistol back I tried it out and it worked just like I had read it should. I then put my grips from Sarge on and the problems returned. Now for those of us in Law Enforcement that is known as a clue. What I discovered is that both my grips from Sarge and Wicked grips are a bit wider front-to-back then the factory grips I had put back on to send it in. So I can't use them with the SFS


When I looked at it I could see that the safety was hitting the back of the grip panel and was keeping the safety from being able to engage.



Notice the gap between the panel and safety off.



Now safety on.


Now here is what I call “The Revenge of JMB”. The chief that was here when all this started in May is gone and we got a new one. I’m sure many of you can see where this is going. The first thing he asked the head of our firearms unit to do was get some prices on a wait for it ……. A 1911! Now we can carry it off duty and I am now writing the policy to let officers carry whatever they want in .40 S&W or .45 ACP on duty. I’ll still carry the SFS off duty and will be ordering one with a light rail for duty use as soon as I can.
Hope this helped. Bottom line on the SFS system is that is works and makes a 1911 less “scary” then Cocked-and-lock will.

[Ross Carter]

I'm glad it worked out for you, the scary cocked a locked thing, well I'm not going there because I'd be preaching awhile.

I do want to point out two things I don't like about that system. The big thing is it changes the manual of arms, you must learn to treat a pistol that looks like a 1911 much differently. Having to push the hammer down for instance.

The other thing is it is just an illusion. The hammer is hinged so it looks like it's double action but it it really cocked and locked just like it's supposed to be. There are just some more parts added to give an illusion.

If you go with these make sure you dedicate yourself to the manual of arms they require, don't use a regular 1911 because it would be way to easy to mess up.

[Che]

Ditch the SFS. In 30+ years with 1911s they have always been problems (Browning High Powers too) You are basically creating a pistol for one person, you.

Now that you got a pro-1911 Chief just go with the 1911.

[chuntaro]

Since you get to write the policy this can make you a hero or a zero. You have a responsibility to both the people you work with and work for to consider. If your department does not have a fulltime smith, I might suggest some mechanism for reliability check during initial authorization and qualification. Glad to see a department not buying off on the all our officers will have the same guns, magazines, grips and ammunition mentality.

[Snoopy47]

Does the SFS turn the classification of the 1911 from SAO into a DA/SA?

I ask because I expect to have to take a requal course next spring and the academy I'd go to does not allow SAO.

The other option would be to guy a Para LDA.

[chuntaro]

Technically, the sfs 1911 would be sao with hammer down carry. Hope this helps. Each pull of the trigger is the same on the sfs. IMHO, I consider it a safer system than a striker fired weapon or a revolver.

[Snoopy47]

Yea, thanks. I was just kind of hoping to skirt some "policies". A Glock isn't double action in the purse sense of the term. It's Safe Action, and I was wondering if the SFS would be grouped in the same category as a Glock.

But I need to get to that conclusion on my own with supporting manufacture's literature. If I were to ask the academy they will of course say no.

[chuntaro]

It is sad the way some administrators and even instructors feel. At one time, our agecy had a fairly open personally owned policy. It, however, would not allow anything with a manual external safety device because they wanted to make the training like a magazine fed revolver. I could copy and send you an owners manual for a factory fn hi power equiped with sfs and a factory manual for a standard sa. I do not believe you will find the ammunition you need. We had an officer shot with his own weapon recently and our agency still believes in the no external safety theory.

[Snoopy47]

Originally Posted by chuntaro

I could copy and send you an owners manual for a factory fn hi power equiped with sfs and a factory manual for a standard sa. I do not believe you will find the ammunition you need.

Thanks for the offer, but I think I'll pass. I don't think I can use the SFS in any form. I never heard of it before this thread. Agencies in my area either allow the 1911 unmolested, or don’t. So this modification would only be for requal only. That said, it’s more trouble than it’s worth. This is only for a POST re- qualification. So it’s a lot of trouble for my wanting to completely sandbag range qualifications with a gun I’m a surgeon with.

All in all, I’m looking into finding an ideal “Production” class competition gun for myself, and I’ll have it worked on for competition purposes. I’ll just use that to requal with.