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Curious about 1945 Remington Rand

5K views 42 replies 12 participants last post by  dsk 
#1 ·
I was trying to find out a little more info about my Remington Rand. I think I have posted pictures here before but I have some more questions.

Is it all correct? Has it been refinished?. The crossed cannons and the FJA proof look like they've been struck twice. What do you all think?









 
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#5 ·
The finish might be original, but buffed or polished possibly by somebody taking Flitz or a similar product to it. But since it has the engraved "LEAD" on it as well as German proofs it's kind of a moot point.

However, it has the wrong slide stop as well.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Any deviation from factory original condition negatively affects value, including refinishing, alterations, replaced parts, cosmetic damage, and non-factory markings. It's certainly not a bad piece, and better than some of the bumper chrome jobs or Bubba re-blues that we sometimes see here, but unfortunately its value is still mostly as a shooter. I'd value it at maybe $1000 or so. If I were you I'd hang on to it, as you've got a decent GI pistol that you can shoot on occasion without feeling like you're committing an act of sacrilege.
 
#10 ·
Hey! Whoa, whoa, whoa... Let's not get too hasty. :)

I'm just generally opposed to selling a 1911, unless it's leaving the milk on the counter, playing loud music at night, or just being annoying.

There are options, depending on what you're looking for.

One may be a refinish, though some would say no. I'd consider it if it were mine, and in the process of the refin, I'd see if I could gracefully work the "LEAD" out.

RRs are - and likely always will be - my absolute favorite; I can't help but to love them all.

I'm clueless what all the proof marks mean, quite honestly.
 
#11 ·
I was really wanting a correct model. I didn't think that it was when I got it. (Traded a S&W 460xvr for it.) But I gave it a shot anyway. The .460 wasn't worth $850.

There is a pawn shop about an hour from here that, for some reason, gets more old 1911s than any other place I've seen. I was just thinking I could sell this one to use the money to get a correct one.

Does the LEAD mean Letterkenny army depot?
 
#15 ·
Whoever "refinished" it may not have removed the old finish before applying a coat of whatever that is. The typical rough machining marks are still there on the slide and the frame, which indicates that it was not subjected to heavy buffing. Does that shiny finish extend to the interior of the gun? Did they dip it or just brush the new finish on the exterior? I'm wondering if it would be possible to remove that coating without taking off the original parkerizing, possibly using lacquer thinner or something like that. It might be worthwhile to carefully experiment with this in an inconspicuous place - under the grips or inside the gun.

Those are quite unusual proof marks, and they may tell a story. IMO, proof marks in themselves don't necessarily hurt the value of a gun; they help tell the story about where the gun has been. Many guns have British proof marks that actually add value. Look at those J.P. Morgan 1911 pistols that went to Britain, for example, with the three proof markings on the front of the grip strap. However, I can't think of anything good to say about that LEAD or LEAO inscription . . .
 
#16 ·
That "coating" is probably still the original Parkeriing. Late Remington Rands were finished in a much lighter color than 1943-early '45 ones and often look silvery after they wear. If you traded a S&W 460xvr for it then you still probably came out ahead. So either shoot it and enjoy it, or use the money towards something that you really want. You wouldn't be the first to get your first GI pistol then use it to help you upgrade. My very first USGI was also a Remington Rand, possibly refinished as well (I didn't know enough about them at the time to know the difference). I found a buyer for it, then used the money to buy a nice '43 Colt that I still have.
 
#20 ·
Kinda what I'm looking for. Nice for shooter grade all or mostly all there but messed up just enough to keep the price within reach. Though I thought $1000 was a little high. But in this market as discussed on other threads its most likely right on. I'll keep looking.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Am I missing something?

Am I correct to understand that you think $1000 is reasonable for this example?

Forgive me for saying so, but no way.

Love me some RRs like I do, I'm still looking at this as a 'sum of parts' / shooter specimen.

Certainly everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I'm reticent to contribute to the price inflation that is already beyond ludicrous.

My 'comfort ceiling' would be $500, though I'm sure a trip to online auction would fetch more.
 
#22 ·
The MSH is serrated.

I have $850 in the gun. I would sell it for that much. If all I can get for it is $500 then I may as well keep it as a shooter. I don't think I can get a Springfield GI for $500.

I'm not trying to sell it on here BTW. Just curious on what all isn't correct on the gun and wondering about the proofs.

I'm shooting it this evening. I'll let you all know how it does.
 
#23 ·
It looks original to me. Is the feed ramp Parkerized or bare? I have seen this gun before - maybe here or on the other forum, or maybe it was a similarly-marked one. As to whether 'LEAD' is 'Letterkenney Army Depot', I would be surprised if that is not their mark. I don't know how it got the German proofs but possibly LEAD received the pistol when it came back from Germany or had it at some previous time. LEAD was named one of the Ordnance Depots in 1941 and is still repairing ordnance.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Add me to the group that thinks it's the original finish. Too many tool marks to be refinished, IMO. The US Property and Model of 1911A1 US Army rollmarks were quite shallow on later R. Rands. It has been through an arsonal, and has proofmarks, both of which bring the value down. I'd say the $850 is a fair price, not a steal, but not bad. As far as being correct, from what I can tell, It all looks right except the slide stop, which is an early type 1.
 
#26 ·
Hi ep 2621.

All gun's who enter in Germany have to be proofed.The Eagle and N is the Nitro proof ,The middle shield is for Mellrichstadt proof house and the K B is from 1991 may be the year army had released to be sold to the public.I vote for original finish.If I were you I will keep it.Try to take pix outside for good result.You also should have a number,on under side of the barrel.(German law)

Good luck.

mag357.
 
#27 ·
I will post pictures of the feed ramp tonight. To me the gun looks the same on the inside as on the outside. It really isn't quite as shiny as the pictures show. (I can't turn the flash off on my wife's camera.)

Am I looking for one number or several numbers under the barrel?

I put it up for sale locally. I think I may take it down, original or not.
 
#29 ·
Letterkenny received and stored lots of small arms. As an east coast depot, they would be a natural AMC receiving facility for "obsolete" small arms returns from Europe. By the markings, suspect this was a US supplied pistol to early nascent West German forces--most likely either Border Patrol (Bundesgrenschutz) or Police; the Eagle N acceptance stamp would have been in order for those services, as well as their armed forces, but West German Armed Forces very quickly went (back) to the P38 in 1957 and to the P1 in 1963, so police or Border Patrol woud be most likely. Berlin star is missing from left side of the trigger guard and I don't see any Bavarian or Hessen marks for the Polizei, so I would bet this was a Border Patrol weapon. Oh, if this gun could talk....
 
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